Do you think the Buggery Law should be?

The Safe House Homeless MSM Project 2009 a detailed look & more



In response to numerous requests for more information on the defunct Safe House Pilot Project that was to address the growing numbers of displaced and homeless men in Kingston in 2007/8/9, a review of the relevance of the project and the possible avoidance of present issues with some of its previous residents if it were kept open.
Recorded June 12, 2013; also see from the former Executive Director named in the podcast more background on the project: HERE

Friday, November 18, 2011

Men rushed in New Kingston .... police hold 4

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As news and pictures from last night's scene at Trafalgar Square in New Kingston, the same square that was in the news earlier this year and before where homeless msms gather at nights and where a taxi driver had rescued some cross dressers over a year ago. Above see the remnants of a cross dressers outfit left on the scene Reports  from key influentials in and associated with the group suggest that threats have been issued by men in and around New Kingston and from a particular popular supermarket staff who have clashed with some of the homeless populations before by throwing stones and other debris at them while passing and verbally assaulting them. 


Trafalgar square on a sunny day 


Other more serious threats have been issued based on the grapevine where it is said that a kind of fatwa has been declared that one of the homeless men especially the cross dressers must be eliminated by December of this year, repetitive insults have been issued and were said to be on the increase. On my sister blog Gay Jamaica Watch only a few days ago I posted problems with the homeless msms in downtown Kingston and other issues to do with poor frontline advocacy from our representatives.


Last night's episode was said to have commenced around 8pm where the friends had gathered at a particular regular spot, which I have also been to before, they were said to have been pounced upon by passers-by and argument ensued following a brawl followed, police were summoned and unfortunately the queens and their friends were taken to the Half Way Tree police where they have been on holding since last evening, the group tried to explain their situation to the cops but their attempts failed and they were rounded up after things became tense at the spot.


Almost fifteen minutes before the creation of this post I managed to have spoken to one of the men through an influential who informed me that the other three men were already processed but were still held and he was waiting his turn. I deduced from the brief exchange that apparently their more masculine aesthetic/presentation has led to an issue of profiling by the cops as they were deemed suspects in a series of robberies in the New Kingston and Half Way Tree areas recently. Police have been known to frequently stereotype and profile men who supposedly fit a certain gangster description linked to criminal activity generally. Thankfully this one never turned out worse, we wait to see if they will be released. 


an old Jamaica Observer pic/story on homeless msms in 2011


This matter of a lack of interest by our advocates towards this languishing population glaring yet again, as we see however they couldn't care less about this population and almost echo sentiments that come very more contemptuous sections of the LGBT community that they are hopeless and cannot or do not need help. Happenings on the international stage, public relations smooth overs and ceremony are far more important than dealing with lives interrupted when they know fully well that they have access to the cogs of HIV and LBGT advocacy funding which can go a far way in helping to assist these sometimes aimless, low self esteemed, displaced or homeless men. The repealing of the buggery law is inextricably linked to this issue whether we want to believe it or not.


also see the hypocrisy on homelessness in the MSM community



The dark side to the homeless issue ..............


and 


Doing 'business' in New Kingston ... Jamaica Observer on MSM Homelessness ..... JFLAG should be ashamed



MEN RUSHED AND BEATEN IN NEW KINGSTON








video

this was the spot across from the park that this CVM TV report was made earlier this year

The rest of us feel almost helpless and angered in a sense as our little private informal crisis interventions cannot dent the problems associated with this issue as it requires far more professional help and psycho social work, some of the men have been assisted by concerned influentials who have literally housed them in their home but the sash as shown struned on the ground in the pic above was owned by one of the Miss World LGBT 2011 contestants who in my view had no business on the streets with that article of the event. 



Also on November 14, 2011 I also posted recent concerns and issues with other displaced men on sister blog Gay Jamaica Watch:

Homelessness/Displacement problems again .........

Only two days ago November 16 we had International Day of Tolerance where I raised my continued concern for this population: 




Peace and tolerance

H

Thursday, November 17, 2011

Church will not compromise on homosexuality (Observer Letter)

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As the silly season as I call it is on again on us as is whenever homosexuality makes the mainstream news we see misinformed misconstrued arguments damning supposed imposing homosexuals to hell just because (this time) there is agitation for consensual buggery to be opened up. It is very interesting that these holy luminaries never extend an invitation to attend church then or commune with the saints then seeing we are so sinful and need redemption.

Isn't the churches role to win souls for the kingdom whoever and whatever sins that soul has is of no importance?

Have a read of the letter from the Observer:

Church will not compromise on homosexuality


Dear Editor,

At times one has to look beyond achievements and positions in a person's life to debunk their arguments. For example, take this quote from Sir Ronald Sanders' column in the November 13 Sunday Observer on the subject of homosexuals' rights in the Caribbean. "Caribbean governments face serious difficulties over this issue. There is a strong prejudice in societies based on both a lack of education and reluctance to engage the issue in public fora. The Churches in the Caribbean are the most unyielding, constraining political parties from adopting a more enlightened and modern-day view of the matter." Is this a matter of facts or only the highly esteemed gentleman's opinion? I am sure there is nothing wrong if someone is prejudiced to something that is considered wrong.

In Sir Ronald's opinion, Caribbean people lack education. That's an insult to the moral intelligence of our people. No one is burning homosexuals at the stake. The dictates of our conscience tell us it is wrong to practise homosexuality because it's against the enduring moral law of God. Maybe the belief in the Creator isn't something that goes well with this enlightened gentleman. We who are of the household of faith have no hesitation to believe that God's words are eternal and truthful. The church's mandate is to preach the good news of the gospel, which is to tell the world about the saving grace that's found when you believe in the atoning work of Jesus on the cross. The Bible also warns that practising homosexuals will not be a part of God's kingdom. Should the church compromise to please modern or post-modern view on homosexuality? The church of Jesus Christ will never bow to any such pressure, because we serve the true and living God. We love the homosexual sinners and pray that they will atone for their sins, but embracing the act would be like playing Russian roulette with your eternal soul. The talk of money and aid from developed countries is just a bait for us to be trapped in this morass of deviant behaviour. Let us cast off all vestige of master and servants and stand as a united people, willing to chart our own course in this world and let no one enslave our minds.

In Sir Ronald's opinion, Caribbean people lack education. That's an insult to the moral intelligence of our people. No one is burning homosexuals at the stake. The dictates of our conscience tell us it is wrong to practise homosexuality because it's against the enduring moral law of God. Maybe the belief in the Creator isn't something that goes well with this enlightened gentleman. We who are of the household of faith have no hesitation to believe that God's words are eternal and truthful. The church's mandate is to preach the good news of the gospel, which is to tell the world about the saving grace that's found when you believe in the atoning work of Jesus on the cross. The Bible also warns that practising homosexuals will not be a part of God's kingdom. Should the church compromise to please modern or post-modern view on homosexuality? The church of Jesus Christ will never bow to any such pressure, because we serve the true and living God. We love the homosexual sinners and pray that they will atone for their sins, but embracing the act would be like playing Russian roulette with your eternal soul. The talk of money and aid from developed countries is just a bait for us to be trapped in this morass of deviant behaviour. Let us cast off all vestige of master and servants and stand as a united people, willing to chart our own course in this world and let no one enslave our minds.

Ray G Stennett
ray4rs2000@aol.com

ENDS

I will try to respond via email and also send the writer my audio commentary on the legality so to speak of homosexuality:




Clearly as I have been repeating we, the LGBT community have serious misconceptions about what is legal versus what is being asked for. And to think homosexuality is always held up as the worse sin above all others, why is that?



The six or so passages that speak against homosexuality were never said by God or Jesus himself and for all we know we don't have any other passages at this time in the present version of the Bible or what may have been left out by the Council of Nicea in Rome when they were putting the first draft of the good book together . When Constantine Emperor then in Rome when this council was put together entered the church it was not as a penitent seeking God’s grace. He entered as the "Pontifex Maximus," Chief Religious Ruler. The faithful bishops were divested of authority when they did not consent to what Constantine ultimately decided was correct or usable for the empire. Truth was not the criteria.

What Constantine wanted was a united front for his new found state religion. He had plenty of division and divisiveness under the pagan rule with three thousand gods.
He wanted a united front to parade before the nation and was ready to cast out from religious authority all that would not bow the knee to his decisions. Hence bishops such as Arius and his associates were put down and lost voice in the spiritual heavens as they were "cast" to "the earth."

Who is the "third part"? We are schooled in fractions and in our schooling one-third denotesa proportional part of a whole. Scripture does not fit into that mold. In Zechariah 13:8, 9 we read: "And it shall come to pass, that in all the land, saith the Lord, two parts therein shall be cut off and die; but the third shall be left therein.

"And I will bring the third part through the fire, and will refine them as silver is refined, and will try them as gold is tried: they shall call on my name, and I will hear them: I will say, It is my people."


In other words judge not! and do not use the word to conveniently suit your own gains. Let the spirit guide you, if we are to be with him (God) then so be it, let him be our final judge. If we are to deal with this issue it's going to take level heads, if the writer is worried about outward displays of affection the culture will fix that, if we are worried about paedophilia mistakenly thought committed from adult male homosexuals then more enlightenment is required on the writer's part. The vast number of gay/bi males in Jamaica are disinterested in children or little boys and are more nurturing if one just asks without any moves to inappropriate sexual contact with a minor, NOT all same sex paedophilia cases are committed by same sex attracted men, in fact most perpetrators as we are told by the experts are heterosexual with deeper psychological scarring from some episode in their past that translates into sexual activity with prepubescent persons with the motivator being control and the dominance over a victim who offers the least resistance.

For an adult of any orientation to have sexual desire for children that is a diagnosable disorder homosexuality with the necessary remedies on the other hand is not the same and not categorised as a disorder since 1973.

Peace and tolerance

Sunday, November 13, 2011

Shirley Richards & The Jamaican UK Foster Parents (The Johns) on Love 101 FM ............. on buggery

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Mr and Mrs Johns (Above) had said they could not tell a child homosexuality was an acceptable lifestyle



A Christian couple opposed to homosexuality had lost a battle over their right to become foster carers earlier this year in the UK.
Eunice and Owen Johns, 62 and 65, from Derby, both Jamaicans who moved to the UK said the city council did not want them to look after children because of their traditional views.
The pair, who are Pentecostal Christians, say they were "doomed not to be approved". they appeared alongside Lawyers' Christian Fellowship spokesperson anti sodomy laws decriminalization advocate Shirley Richards. The topic of discussion aired on the Love FM 101 weekly program sponsored by the Jamaica Theological Seminary was the recent comment and or threat by the United Kingdom Prime Minister David Cameron on the withdrawal of aid to countries who do not remove or repeal anti sodomy/buggery laws on their books.
Miss Eunice Johns one half of a Jamaican couple who have lived in the United Kingdom for just over forty years said that the couple wanted to continuing running their foster care activity while they were full time employed in total they fostered around fifteen children from the early nineties. They had another business outside of that which was short lived so in 2006 the couple decided to foster care as a business but when they went to sign up and go through the legal wranglings they were naive to the sexual orientation law, " ...we didn't know there was a sexual orientation act ...." she continued " we were so naive and so is a lot of Christians, we seem to think that politics has nothing to do with us, well politics has everything to do with us because its affecting us as parents, we applied to foster just to be told we had to go the line of an assessment and while we were going down there was a question, no it wasn't a question it was a scenario, they the, the social worker er um put a scenario to us she said, what if a child of eight comes to you and tell you they were homosexual what would you tell them? so I said I don't think a child of eight would know their sexuality but they said yes, so I said well I couldn't tell a child of eight that it is alight to be homosexual, she said you would have to, you would have to tell children it's alright to be homosexual because these issues that children has when you do not explain to them what is happening and then it can mess them up later life. So I said morally and spiritually as a Christian I couldn't tell a child it's alright to be homosexual and we left it there, but this social worker was dominant that she really wanted me to say that it's alright, she even told us that even if we got through the foster care we couldn't take the children to church, we couldn't take them to church either so that's another thing and we have to tell them it's alright, so later on we decided then we didn't want that social worker anymore because we didn't like the route this was going, cause we didn't know there was a sexual orientation act, she told us later on of course and so we went to a panel and the panel, we told the panel our story that as Christians we can foster children but we cannot tell them it's alright to be homosexual cause we don't believe it ourselves so we would be telling a lie      and then said, they thanked us for coming and then later on it was about two weeks later we got a letter saying thank you for withdrawing your application."
Mr. Johns was asked to add to the above and he continued that he felt bad after looking after three generations he explained how the fostering worked, He said when the orientation matter was raised he said although they were bible believing Christians they would have worked with the social worker however the law was brought in through the back door in 2006.  

Shirley Richards past President of the Lawyers' Christian Fellowship, LCF when asked about her point of view she began by saying that people were clamouring to do what they want to do in the privacy of their bedrooms but the host interjected that the current Prime Minister Andrew Holness said that what happens in private has public effects to which Miss Richards agreed: "Absolutely, it is naive to think that is all that is wanted, in every country and you know we have one learned QC (Lord Anthony Gifford) who mentioned Ireland that in Ireland um the anti sodomy laws were repealed by his interventions but the same very thing is happening in Ireland in every country in which these laws have been repealed what has happened is that um Christians are being impacted and so for example in the United Kingdom the Catholics have had to close down their adoption agencies (host interjects - "cause they are against the whole thing of telling children ...") what I find interesting about the Johns that they didn't realise the world around them was changing until they came in contact with the system. (host -  "so the system can be very big? so you realise that Christians in Jamaica and outside of and not only Christians but others who are neccesarily for if they are not aware of what is happening the thing can come on us overnight and you don't even know") 
Eunice Johns agreed: "it came to England overnight, we didn't realise cause we had fostered before we had fostered 15 children we didn't know about the new sexual orientation act."
The host of the program before going to the break set up the stage for the discussion hinting to the effects on countries who have "legalized homosexuality" she also tried to present a tolerance card by saying "we are not talking about people shouldn't have their rights, we not going against people who shouldn't have their rights but what would legalization do in Jamaica, would it prevent the paedophiles from buggering our little boys?" 
After the break it was instructive to hear the host of the program mention in a question she posed describing us as "The homosexuals" and "The Gays and lesbians" she said that persons were touting for the legalization of homosexuality. She again after the break repeated her stance on her version of tolerance, "I just want to make it very clear here we are not by any chance saying that if anybody knows of anybody who is involved in homosexuality they should be destroyed, they should be beaten, they should be mobbed, I've had to work with persons like that," Shirley Richards concurred "In fact we want to say that that type of response is absolutely wrong (host - "exactly") and we want to condemn it" (host - "if you know of anybody at all it is not in your right to call out for anything and want to make that very clear.") Ms Richards ended "Absolutely" The host continued in saying she lectures on mental issues and she drew inference to suicides, mental problems, HIV/AIDS high incidence and relationship problems in the same gender loving community in countries where homosexuality is legalized. 


Mrs. Shirley Richards answered the following: "....one point I need to make though is that what our law penalises is anal penetration, you know, it's sodomy which is penalised by our laws in Jamaica, there is no law saying, you nuh the law just goes straight to that." 
The host however either not understanding what was pointed out by Miss Shirley or that was a gratuitous move repeated a question posed before imputing that homosexuality is illegal,  "Would legalizing homosexuality prevent paedophiles, because I've heard the report on the news the victims support unit that many of the little boys age 12 years old they need therapy, would would legalizing this stop anything like that?"


Shirley Richards responds: "I can't see why, I can't say that there is any direct correlation between the repeal of that law and a lessening in the incidence of abuse of minors, I can't see why, I can't see that logically that would follow, I really can't see it, what is needed is for these people, these men to be brought to justice, you know as you mentioned there is still a problem in these countries, look um there is a football coach who was who was, who was fired from his job what was it? at University of Pennsylvania, you know in a country in which there is no sodomy law, there are no sodomy laws in the states of the US and um just recently just a couple days ago he was found guilty of having              molested a number of children over the years so to say that if you repeal the buggery law  that the incidence of child abuse in this particular area would go down I can't see that that would necessarily follow because it still happens in these countries in which there is no such law."    


The host posed a question to the Johns who were present in studio as well: "Mr & Mrs Johns would it then mean like in Britain a man can marry a man a woman can marry a woman then who would have the children? (all laughing) Mrs Johns: "yes I know" Mr. Johns: "It's happening already, a law is coming like Elton John for instance, you know." (host - "so women soon can't find husbands,come let's talk") Mrs. Johns continued: "well yes that what happen and the Bible says go out and replenish two men cannot do that neither can two women so you know that where we know it's wrong, it is wrong the Bible tells us first and foremost that it is wrong, alot of people sometimes say that this is old testament it tells you quire clearly in the new testament that it is wrong for two man to sleep together, two men and two women to sleep together, you know cause you cannot have children, two men cannot have children and two women cannot have children."


Shirley Richards interjects: "You know what too Mrs. White (the host's name called for the first time) what they need to explain to Jamaica David Cameron needs to explain to the Jamaican people you see is why is it HIV/AIDS is still, is out of control (host - "in the countries in which...yes yes") in those countries .. maybe they need to reinstate the law (host - "France has one of the highest cases of HIV where it has been legalized for so many years") among that population among the msm population, the highest incidence."


The host, one Mrs. White asked if could we suffer and loose financial aid if we don't legalize it in Jamaica?  Mr. Johns replied: "That's the problem is the government going to hear the British law? (host- "yes yes") aah if they do and the cutting of funds that means they are open for all kinds of things .. and the Bible say in Leviticus 8 that it is abomination." The host continued that the present Prime Minister that people's private actions have public effects. Miss Richards responds: "Let me tell you why (host - 'yes yes") let me give you an example of that over two years we spent approximately $594 million I think it was on just prevention of HIV/AIDS, you understand? in a country which is strapped for cash and this is just prevention you know, 594 over a two year period, when you look at it the doctors have said anal sex anal penetration ids the most efficient way of passing on the HIV/AIDS virus, shouldn't we then be warning these people against these types of activity? eeeh (host - "..and the mental pressure") 


In closing the host asked the guests to give their final words:
Mr Johns: "Be more opened minded and make sure you know what's happening in the world because these are laws being brought in the back door and you just find about these things happening until the challenges, you need to be more aware."


Mrs. Johns: "As Christians out there as people in Jamaica be ye very careful because we in England alot of us as Christians sort of sit and says it doesn't affect us but it affect all of us in the end and whenever you go to get a job or anything like this so many people in jobs in England they cannot speak out against homosexuality, we were fortunate we didn't have a job, we were retired people and we could speak but there are so many people that have been muzzled in the job places, so be very careful and Christians stand up for what you believe in, stand up like the three Hebrew boys, stand up and say God will deliver." Mr. Johns intervened: " ...and we are not into gay bashing (host - "no we not we not destroying anybody, that is their right as it were.") don't go out there and do things, you know?


Shirley Richards: "Yes I would say to Jamaicans just find the ways of letting the government know of your disapproval with the repeal of the buggery laws"


Prayer by  Mr. Johns ............ program ends   


        
So we see folks we have a long way to go it seems with old misconceptions and confusing paedophilia related to us is still  ripe in the minds of the traditional Christian community and some members of the legal profession.


Peace and tolerance


H                                
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Thanks for your Donations

Hello readers,

thank you for your donations via Paypal in helping to keep this blog going, my limited frontline community work, temporary shelter assistance at my home and related costs. Please continue to support me and my allies in this venture that has now become a full time activity. When I first started blogging in late 2007 it was just as a pass time to highlight GLBTQ issues in Jamaica under then JFLAG's blogspot page but now clearly there is a need for more forumatic activity which I want to continue to play my part while raising more real life issues pertinent to us.

Donations presently are accepted via Paypal where buttons are placed at points on this blog(immediately below, GLBTQJA (Blogspot), GLBTQJA (Wordpress) and the Gay Jamaica Watch's blog as well. If you wish to send donations otherwise please contact: glbtqjamaica@live.com




Activities & Plans: ongoing and future

  • To continue this venture towards website development with an E-zine focus

  • Work with other Non Governmental organizations old and new towards similar focus and objectives

  • To find common ground on issues affecting GLBTQ and straight friendly persons in Jamaica towards tolerance and harmony

  • Exposing homophobic activities and suggesting corrective solutions

  • To formalise GLBTQ Jamaica's activities in the long term

  • Continuing discussion on issues affecting GLBTQ people in Jamaica and elsewhere

  • Welcoming, examining and implemeting suggestions and ideas from you the viewing public

  • Present issues on HIV/AIDS related matters in a timely and accurate manner

  • Assist where possible victims of homophobic violence and abuse financially, temporary shelter(my home) and otherwise

  • Track human rights issues in general with a view to support for ALL

Thanks again
Mr. H

Tel: 1-876-8134942
lgbtevent@gmail.com








Peace

Information & Disclaimer

lgbtevent@gmail.com

Individuals who are mentioned or whose photographs appear on this site are not necessarily Homosexual, HIV positive or have AIDS.

This blog contains pictures that may be disturbing. We have taken the liberty to present these images as evidence of the numerous accounts of homophobic violence meted out to alledged gays in Jamaica.

Faces and names witheld for the victims' protection.

This blog not only watches and covers LGBTQ issues in Jamaica and elsewhere but also general human rights and current affairs where applicable.

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Recent Homophobic Incidents
CLICK HERE for related posts/labels and HERE from the gayjamaicawatch's BLOG containing information I am aware of. If you know of any such reports or incidents please contact lgbtevent@gmail.com

Peace to you and be safe out there.

Love.

What to do if you are attacked (News You Can Use)

First, be calm: Do not panic; it may be very difficult to maintain composure if attacked but this is important.

Try to reason with the attacker: Establish communication with the person. This takes a lot of courage. However, a conversation may change the intention of an attacker.

Do not try anything foolish: If you know outmanoeuvring the attacker is impossible, do not try it.

Do not appear to be afraid: Look the attacker in the eye and demonstrate that you are not fearful.

This may have a psychological effect on the individual.

Emergency numbers
The police 119

Kingfish 811

Crime Stop 311


Steps to Take When Contronted or Arrested by Police

a) Ask to see a lawyer or Duty Council

b) Only give name and address and no other information until a lawyer is present to assist

c) Try to be polite even if the scenario is tensed) Don’t do anything to aggravate the situation

e) Every complaint lodged at a police station should be filed and a receipt produced, this is not a legal requirement but an administrative one for the police to track reports

f) Never sign to a statement other than the one produced by you in the presence of the officer(s)

g) Try to capture a recording of the exchange or incident or call someone so they can hear what occurs, place on speed dial important numbers or text someone as soon as possible

h) File a civil suit if you feel your rights have been violatedi) When making a statement to the police have all or most of the facts and details together for e.g. "a car" vs. "the car" represents two different descriptions

j) Avoid having the police writing the statement on your behalf except incases of injuries, make sure what you want to say is recorded carefully, ask for a copy if it means that you have to return for it

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